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	<title>Comments on: Reflections on Parliament&#8217;s debate on Same-sex Marriage</title>
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	<link>http://www.acceptingevangelicals.org/2013/02/reflections-on-parliaments-debate-on-same-sex-marriage/</link>
	<description>Better for Everyone</description>
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		<title>By: AE Newsletter - January 2014 &#124; Accepting Evangelicals</title>
		<link>http://www.acceptingevangelicals.org/2013/02/reflections-on-parliaments-debate-on-same-sex-marriage/#comment-3721</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AE Newsletter - January 2014 &#124; Accepting Evangelicals]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jan 2014 20:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acceptingevangelicals.org/?p=1507#comment-3721</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] On 5th February the House of Commons voted in favour of same-sex marriage after a full and lively debate. MP’s were given a free vote without political party instructions, and voted by 400 votes to175 for the new law to proceed to the next stage of parliamentary scrutiny. Although many churches only seemed concerned with insulating themselves from this, many Christian MPs spoke in favour of the Bill.  For some of the key speeches, please see our blog post ‘Reflections on parliament’s debate’ [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] On 5th February the House of Commons voted in favour of same-sex marriage after a full and lively debate. MP’s were given a free vote without political party instructions, and voted by 400 votes to175 for the new law to proceed to the next stage of parliamentary scrutiny. Although many churches only seemed concerned with insulating themselves from this, many Christian MPs spoke in favour of the Bill.  For some of the key speeches, please see our blog post ‘Reflections on parliament’s debate’ [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: AE Newsletter - March 2013 &#124; Accepting Evangelicals</title>
		<link>http://www.acceptingevangelicals.org/2013/02/reflections-on-parliaments-debate-on-same-sex-marriage/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AE Newsletter - March 2013 &#124; Accepting Evangelicals]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Mar 2013 21:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acceptingevangelicals.org/?p=1507#comment-1027</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] &#8592; Reflections on Parliament&#8217;s debate on Same-sex Marriage [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] &larr; Reflections on Parliament&#8217;s debate on Same-sex Marriage [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Long</title>
		<link>http://www.acceptingevangelicals.org/2013/02/reflections-on-parliaments-debate-on-same-sex-marriage/#comment-973</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Long]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2013 16:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acceptingevangelicals.org/?p=1507#comment-973</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks for posting this and for the continued work that you do.  I&#039;m a deacon in a Baptist Church and my support for gay marriage and gay inclusion has embroiled me in some debate there.  As with most churches (I guess) there is a whole spectrum of opinion there but some unfortunate comments have been made from the pulpit and this has upset several people, I just hope we can get past this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for posting this and for the continued work that you do.  I&#8217;m a deacon in a Baptist Church and my support for gay marriage and gay inclusion has embroiled me in some debate there.  As with most churches (I guess) there is a whole spectrum of opinion there but some unfortunate comments have been made from the pulpit and this has upset several people, I just hope we can get past this.</p>
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		<title>By: George Day</title>
		<link>http://www.acceptingevangelicals.org/2013/02/reflections-on-parliaments-debate-on-same-sex-marriage/#comment-968</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[George Day]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 14:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acceptingevangelicals.org/?p=1507#comment-968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for posting this - it is very interesting to see what different MPs said on both sides of the argument. I would like to comment as somebody totally supportive of civil partnership, but very far from convinced that gay marriage is right.

I notice that Emma Reynolds, Jonathan Reynolds and Ben Bradshaw all speak about “equal marriage” without any attempt at all (at least in the sections quoted) to explain how the present situation is one of inequality, and since this equality argument seems to be their major point the lack of explanation is strange, to say the least. I know that 1 + 4 and 2 + 3 are equal, whereas 1 + 4 and 2 + 5 are unequal, and I know why. But these 3 MPs seem to make no attempt to describe or explain this supposed lack of equality.

On the other hand, David Lammy does seek to describe the inequality that he perceives, and does so by drawing a parallel with past racial injustice in the US and with apartheid. He speaks of “discriminated against.....oppressed…..browbeaten…..subjugated”, which are of course quite fair in describing the past US and South Africa situations, but to use them as a parallel for the situation here regarding civil partnership is utterly extraordinary and quite disturbing. Is he seriously suggesting that this is the inequality produced by the present situation of civil partnership, not marriage, for gay people? Talk about extreme language!

So I am left totally unconvinced by the unexplained inequality of the first three of these speakers, and repelled by the OTT explanation from David Lammy. (I also note that none of them comment on the new “inequality” that I understand this bill will produce of gay people being able to choose either partnership or marriage, but straight people only having marriage).

On the other hand, Simon Hughes hits the nail on the head when he says, “I think the Church was wrong to oppose them [civil partnerships] at the time.” If only the Church of England had been able to come to an arrangement for its clergy similar to the one we have for marriage after divorce - offering discretion, so that those clergy who were happy to do a public blessing following civil partnership could do so, while not in any way forcing others who were unwilling, to do so. This might then have opened the way for a real celebration of partnerships, in civil life and in the Church, and might have taken away some of the pressure to rush into a hastily conceived push for gay marriage. As it is, I fear that we shall have something that polarises opinion, (just  when it looked as though there was an increasing agreement among many, inside the Church and outside, that civil partnership was an enormously helpful thing). And something that because politicians seem woefully prone to producing hasty measures that then turn out to have all sorts of unforeseen complications will bring considerable difficulties in the future in a number of ways.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for posting this &#8211; it is very interesting to see what different MPs said on both sides of the argument. I would like to comment as somebody totally supportive of civil partnership, but very far from convinced that gay marriage is right.</p>
<p>I notice that Emma Reynolds, Jonathan Reynolds and Ben Bradshaw all speak about “equal marriage” without any attempt at all (at least in the sections quoted) to explain how the present situation is one of inequality, and since this equality argument seems to be their major point the lack of explanation is strange, to say the least. I know that 1 + 4 and 2 + 3 are equal, whereas 1 + 4 and 2 + 5 are unequal, and I know why. But these 3 MPs seem to make no attempt to describe or explain this supposed lack of equality.</p>
<p>On the other hand, David Lammy does seek to describe the inequality that he perceives, and does so by drawing a parallel with past racial injustice in the US and with apartheid. He speaks of “discriminated against&#8230;..oppressed…..browbeaten…..subjugated”, which are of course quite fair in describing the past US and South Africa situations, but to use them as a parallel for the situation here regarding civil partnership is utterly extraordinary and quite disturbing. Is he seriously suggesting that this is the inequality produced by the present situation of civil partnership, not marriage, for gay people? Talk about extreme language!</p>
<p>So I am left totally unconvinced by the unexplained inequality of the first three of these speakers, and repelled by the OTT explanation from David Lammy. (I also note that none of them comment on the new “inequality” that I understand this bill will produce of gay people being able to choose either partnership or marriage, but straight people only having marriage).</p>
<p>On the other hand, Simon Hughes hits the nail on the head when he says, “I think the Church was wrong to oppose them [civil partnerships] at the time.” If only the Church of England had been able to come to an arrangement for its clergy similar to the one we have for marriage after divorce &#8211; offering discretion, so that those clergy who were happy to do a public blessing following civil partnership could do so, while not in any way forcing others who were unwilling, to do so. This might then have opened the way for a real celebration of partnerships, in civil life and in the Church, and might have taken away some of the pressure to rush into a hastily conceived push for gay marriage. As it is, I fear that we shall have something that polarises opinion, (just  when it looked as though there was an increasing agreement among many, inside the Church and outside, that civil partnership was an enormously helpful thing). And something that because politicians seem woefully prone to producing hasty measures that then turn out to have all sorts of unforeseen complications will bring considerable difficulties in the future in a number of ways.</p>
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